have dedicated to your graffiti program? and also larry, how many painters or staff is in your graffiti abatement program? >> great questions. >> well, i'm the graffiti guy, graffiti abatement guy. [laughter] (applause) >> as far as the guys i use on my paint overs, i have a group of 3 to 4 guys and i pick them -- they're hand picked by me. i tend to pick guys who are patient, good with kids, guys who are school resource officers. that's a big plus. you know, you've got to like kids, maybe have experience in teaching, coaching, working with kids. like i said in my presentation, you don't want the guy with the rack shock and smoke mirror glasses who looks like he's working on a chain gang. you want someone who can maybe

not talk to them in their own vernacular, but who can see eye to eye with them, talk to them about kid things and most of all be patient. and who can document trouble and kind of see things on the horizon that might be issues coming up and who are familiar with the san francisco landscape. you know, i don't let just any cop come and do the overtime. very, very picky about who i get. and i get guys who are dependable and who are most of all good with kids. >> larry, part 2. >> about 18, roughly about five crews that go out total. but they remember their main focus is public, not private. so, in short that's the answer. >> [inaudible].

>> all public property. so, light poles, signal boxes. we do mailboxes, stickers, trees. garbage can. >> trash cans, yeah. >> [speaker not understood]. >> public. >> yeah, city property. the benches in the parks. we don't do parks, but parks are done, rec and park does the benches he. we have some pretty basic colors. * so, most of our furniture is probably one of four colors. it's all going to be green. >> okay. let's see, what am i going to do? we're going to do this 15, 20 more minutes because i know mel needs to leave in a little while. we were going to go to about

4:15 but we're cut short a little bit. we'll do a ten-minute break after that and we'll kickoff some awards for people that are deserving. so, i'm going to take another question from gideon, gideon cramer, former member of the san francisco graffiti advisory board. and let's hear what you have to ask. >> this is a follow-up question for larry. we were talking about concrete sidewalk graffiti and curbs. and your response was that that is private property or the owner -- the property owner is responsible. a number of my neighbors had asked me when they had graffiti said where do we go? technically you're responsible. so, what am i going to do? they ended up -- i said, do not paint over it. it's got to be power washed. you have to use -- that can be really expensive. they went and painted over it. and now it looks worse than the graffiti. i see it all over the city that

a tag is painted over with brown paint, with whatever is available. and then it becomes a real problem because it's really hard to remove it then. so, i think that -- my thought about it, i know dpw doesn't have the financial resources, but realistically i think sidewalks even though they're kind of that nebulous gray area where technically they're owned by the property owner, but they really are public property. and i think that's something that dpw should somehow find the funding to take care of that property because private property owners are not going to hire somebody with a power washer to come out there and do it. i just know it. i mean, i see very, very few examples of that. >> larry. >> i would agree. but as always, it's an issue of funding. we do have approved product listses on our website. so, if you run into somebody, there are some there they can use and actually work relatively well.

but the ultimately cities face this all the time. you have to make decisions about what resources you have and what you can and can't do with the resources that you have. and, so, that's going to continue to be a problem. and it's always about the decisions, what you can do and what you can't. and while it's understandable, as long as they're abating the graffiti, and i understand it doesn't look nice to have a sidewalk painted, but my reference would be tell them about the other products that are out there. and i'm not -- not all of the tags require a power washer to take it off. >> i'm going to speak as a property owner. >> go for it. >> i live in alameda. this was not graffiti, this was trees, replanting trees, they want to put a tree, who is responsible for that, sidewalks and everything. one thing they did do is they offered referrals for contractors, not just materials, but, you know, people who could do the trees

or who could do the sidewalk repairs or what have you. so, that might be another option for different municipalities that help theirs. but that helped get her done. >> [speaker not understood]. >> go ahead. >> [speaker not understood]. [speaker not understood]. they know where to actually get power washers and things like that from home depot. they offer that information to the residents and that way that is something that is also helpful. so, there is another avenue there. >> go ahead. you want to add -- >> i wanted to add to this subject. going back to ghosting, there is a same situation with sidewalks.

actually, i'm a contractor so i know. you need to have a lot of power on your power washer, a specific amount of pressure in order to be able to take some of the graffiti on the sidewalks. one point i haven't heard talked in this conference is an issue that has a lot to do with ghosting is that vandals are coming up with new concoctions of paints that they use to make it harder to take out. so, i say that graffiti abatement is a combination of science and alchemy. because every time you get to a place, a small percentage you find pigments that's like from another world almost. but just to finalize, and i understand what larry was answering. it makes sense that you cannot hold property owners liable to graffiti ghosting. but is this a point of policy that maybe could look forward?

other municipalities, that whenever there is ghosting, you actually encouraging more vandalism because that is an etch that is going to stay -- my grandchildren might still see it. so, what i'm saying is i think dpw does a great job on giving referrals on contractors, by the way, and a wealth of information about products. but the bottom line is that property owner is only going to spend so much money over and over and over and get to a point that it's just too much money. so, ghosting i think to me is dear to my heart because of this. if it stays there it's going to attract more vandalism. >> great point, thank you. jan, do you want to read another question? >> yes, this is in regards to abatement and it's something that as a city we have issues with, too, so i would like an answer.

is there a product that would clean [speaker not understood] without damaging reflective coating? i've used different brands with no luck and i end up replacing the sign. so, in your experience [speaker not understood]? oh, okay. >> [speaker not understood]. i've got a sign outside my house at home. somebody tagged my sign. so, i went out there and when i got done, there was no red paint left, just a big shiny reflective piece. so, i called up the city of highland and i said, my sign looks like crap. they said that's fine. you must have one of the old signs. and 3m is putting out a material, it's being used by our city and every one of our "street signs" come down. when a street sign comes down, san beerctionv dino does it, a lot of cities in california are doing it. san bernardino. * when you wipe it off it allows

you to wipe the paint off. you don't get the run and such. so we're seeing more and more of it being used in california. you still have to clean it. it doesn't keep it from sticking, but it preserves the signs, don't have to keep changing the signs. >> all right. so, i want to actually ask a question of the attendees. was there anything about this conference that you can -- because basically we all live graffiti. graffiti is our live. we deal with it on a daily basis. anybody here come to this conference and whether it's from the panel or somebody that they spoke to here, one of the vendors that were here, that was something totally new, something you've never heard of before, something brand spanking new for you and something you want to take home with you to share with other people? chuck? >> we're launching our education program in the schools. the idea of having the kids do some artwork and then turn around and tag it in their

class. so, they feel what it's like to be violated. that is so powerful, i can't wait to get home and start doing it. on the other side as a carrot, i have stickers. when you give blood like i do every eight weeks, they give me a little sticker. that says, be nice to me, i gave blood today. [speaker not understood]. we need to do that for our clean-up people. so, when i take one of our felons, our misdemeanor kids and we go out and abate graffiti, at the end of the day i put a sticker on and says, be nice to me, i cleaned hayward today. your parents have to be nice to you and you tell them i said so. (applause) >> awesome, thank you. thank you. do you have another question up there? >> i do. >> okay, great. >> it's a rather hefty one. there is much more commercial

tagging such as billboards, rap ads on buses, streetcars, structures built into sidewalks such as kiosks, news gras being, stand alone in ground billboards, and tagging by individuals. also people have become used to constant advertising. if we are wanting to make our city more beautiful, how do we handle commercial tagging? doesn't the amount of advertising in public space affect us? does anyone want to take that? anyone want to tackle that one? >> i'll throw a little bit on that one. again, you know, the constitution has a real issue in america where we have freedom of speech. and just because something -- artwork that appears to be graffiti does not make it illegal. and the corporations know that graffiti is one of the edge things that draws youth and draws vibrance and it's a sign of being, you know, alive and active. you see it in all kinds of advertising and it's going to

continue. the only way around it, i know there have been some contacts with certain corporations where they had it drawn to their attention, made a mistake and they would change. and that's the only way you can do it is dealing with the corporation itself. and that is going to be very difficult because as you saying i don't like this versus, hey, we're selling $10 million worth of product this year and a lot of it is off of our graffiti campaign. when i show some of my stuff in -- we talk about commercial graffiti, there's a bunch of stuff in conon el, a toilet paper commercial. they had graffiti built onto each one of their toilet paper ads. they weren't getting bang for their buck and they got rid of t. there was a commercial from esther c. there was a supplement, a

little orange and you ran around and saw graffiti and heard the police chasing him and stuff. i quoted that to the joe camel thing. kids look at that and think graffiti is cool. they received a lot of pressure and they pulled those ads. but you have the opposite side where you have like mountain dew where they go out and find 10 or 12 different taggers they think are great, design custom mountain cans, extreme games is the thing they're pushing and they get a lot of input from that. they have a website and guys go out collecting cans reading about the poor vandals grew up on the mean streets, now they're artists because they have their own personal cans. we can't regulate what isn't personal constitution. if you can provide an economic impact, we as adults are looking at this and we don't want to deal with it, if you have any thought about this,

contact randy campbell at no graffiti network. he's been battling against coca cola and their graffiti stuff for years and years and years. he can tell you what kind of battle that is legally. so, it's kind of the side effect of living in a free country. >> awesome, thank you. i believe you had a question here. did you have your hand up? mine was a pretty good question. let's see what other answers we have. >> i'm the general services manager for our public works department which means i have 36 [speaker not understood] of program responsibility. and graffiti is the 36th. so, i really appreciate, especially dr. spencer and some of the other panelists who kind of help bring home some of the key points about how graffiti really is a gateway crime and how graffiti vandals escalate. and that's one, if any message i can take home, that's what i really want to so i thank you for that.

omaha, nebraska. >> omaha, nebraska. you have one up there? >> i'm all done. >> do you have a question you wanted to ask? >> [speaker not understood]. >> we'll get to the sales pitches, okay. [laughter] >> okay. anybody else here, let me come over here because we're going to start wrapping this up pretty soon because we have some awards we're going to give out. okay. i'm going to hold the mic and i'll determine how quick it's going to be, okay. [laughter] >> just to compliment the city of san francisco. i was on -- i took the muni in yesterday. and when i was on the bus in the morning, there is a repetitive announcement that went out that said, if you see graffiti, report it. and here's the phone number. it went out, i believe in three languages. that's wonderful. i think that's more key than if you hit the raid yoxtion and all that sort of media thing

and grab that piece. * radio those are the people that are out there. >> awesome. if anybody has compliment for san francisco let me know because we can put that in right now. [laughter] >> alex, you live here. hold on. let me get over to you quickly and then we'll have you -- >> the one thing that i really got from catherine's presentation that really touched me was she was telling us to go forward 2030 in term of technologies and looking back to today. but this conference with all the vendors we had here had an amazing impact on me as learning of new technologies. i really feel in the 21st century of different types of technologies. i'm not going to make any pitches here. but bottom line is we are learning and this conference to me, and i know for many of us here, it was a great learning experience. thank you. >> awesome, thank you. (applause)

>> thank you. all right. if we don't have any more questions, i'm going to give it over to drew to do his little sales pitch up there. or any announcements that need to be made. >> [speaker not understood]. >> okay, do you want the microphone? i'll hold it. i'm kidding. here you go. >> i'm obviously part of the nonprofit [speaker not understood], i have a products company. and for what it's worth, it hasn't gone to development yet. but we have a one-coat film that so far is working on traffic signs with unlimited cleanings. once it goes to market we'll let you know at the 2013 conference. we're not quite there yet, but it is close. the films can be difficult to apply on signs and very labor intensive, but the sign shops something you'll be able to apply yourself. when it comes to completion, all graffiti [speaker not understood] will get a sample. can (applause) *

>> okay. so, we have a couple minutes. if there's no more questions, no more compliments, the panel, thank you so much for coming. (applause) >> it's been awesome. hopefully we'll be having another one next year somewhere in the world. ... >> you guys have some good lunch? always the worst to try to do a presentation after lung. : we'll try to make it through it. before we get started i'm supposed to make sure if you have a question, we have to use

this microphone here. so, you have to wait till you get the microphone in front of you to ask a question he. * lunch that's the purpose for the audio and stuff. today we're going to talk about -- basically this is what i want to do here. i've been a detective for about six years now and been with the police department 15 years. prior to that i was in the united states army, military police corps. any [speaker not understood] here? just one? prior to that when i went to college i was always looking at graffiti. i'm originally from wisconsin and there's a lot of gang graffiti back when i was growing up. i was interested in looking at it and seeing the messages that were up there. when i got into the phoenix police department, i worked four years on the road and then i started doing school resource officer. the school resource officer for a couple years where i really, really learned about graffiti. in your presentation, it talked

about how the schools, schools are big where they start out, okay. [speaker not understood] at home, but school is where they really get started. in the state of arizona if graffiti is done in school, a cemetery or church, it's an automatic class expeling. anybody here from arizona? where are you from? >> tucson. >> awesome. where are you from? >> i'm from [speaker not understood]. >> you work at the prison? >> [speaker not understood]. >> the jail, okay. are you guys law enforce. ment in here? any nonlaw enforcement in here? what you do? >> [speaker not understood]. >> sweet. >> [speaker not understood]. >> neighborhood revitalization. >> awesome. we work really, a lot hand in hand in the city of phoenix

with our neighborhood services department. by far some of my best friends. we get a lot done. i can't speak enough about them. somebody asked me if [speaker not understood] can come in here. i want to try to keep the media out. i'll tell you guys about that in the future, how we don't really want these people to know, we don't want it out in the media, hey, we just busted somebody because we used facebook to get them. what are the vandals going to do? everything is going to go away. we want to make sure -- i'm telling you right now by no means am i an spederth. i will not stand up here and tell you i'm an expert on how to investigate graffiti. i am not an expert to tell you how to use technology. what i want to do with you is to show you what i have done that has been successful for me to get vandals arrested. and what we did is pretty good. we use a couple things. anybody ever heard of graffiti tracker? you haven't? awesome program, right.

if you guys don't have graffiti tracker yet, we're going to talk about graffiti tracker. that's one of the biggest things i use. when i first came to this detail, i was a body hate crimes school violence detector when i first came to this detail. next thing they said, budget cuts. they got rid of school violence for some reason and then gave me graffiti. i was like, ah, hell no, graffiti? [laughter] >> hey, when you work the road, you get that hot call for graffiti. you guys are passionate because you're here obviously. most of the time i listen to the radio and they slow all that. you know what i'm saying? it's just graffiti, just a misdemeanor. but we talk about it, it's not just graffiti, it is a gateway crime. we're doing a study right now as we speak, we're into our second year showing that it's not just grab at&t other aloe, showing that their next step is burglary. with the use of facebook and the use of our program right

here that we did just this past year, we helped with a homicide. we helped with a sexual assault. not a kid, but trigs went in and sexually assaulted the mom of a girl and they tagged their name on the wall. who did they come to first? us. who do you think this is? we told them. they went and sat on them, got all the evidence we needed, got a good arrest. so, it's not just graffiti. i keep telling the officers on the street, it is not just grab eat aloe. it leads to something else. we talk about the addictive behavior of graffiti. it really is addictive. everybody that i've interviewed so far, we're going to talk about some of those at the end, always tell me that they're addict today it, they can't stop. so, it is an addictive behavior. it is not about the actual graffiti that they're putting up. okay. it's that addiction to do it. so, what's next? after you do graffiti, why not

burglarize a house? get another adrenaline rush, [speaker not understood]. some of the things we're going to talk about. if you have any questions again and you want to e-mail me anything that i present to you. i e-mailed a bunch of things in here to get out to you, but i guess they didn't get them printed out. i have a thing for facebook on how to obtain a search warrant or a subpoena from facebook. if you don't have that, yeah, that, there are some that don't have it. if you don't have it, e-mail me. i'll give you all that information. my card is over here on the table and i will get that to you. if you ever need help writing a search warrant, call me. i don't care, i'll help you out. if you ever need help writing a request for subpoena for records. and this is not just facebook. we don't have enough time to just talk about everything that we use. we do these on cell phones. i don't know, you guys know in arizona now if we arrest somebody doing graffiti and take their phone, we have to get a search warrant now to get what's on that phone. you can't just take it like i don't know what some of your

jurisdictions allow you to do, but we cannot take that now. we used to be able to. we used to take it, go down and we scan that phone and get every single picture, every single video, every single contact off of it. now they just recently passed that law where we can't do that. we have to get a search warrant now. that's what we do. i can show you how to do a search warrant for that. if you ever need help with that, r just call me and ask. be more than happy to help you because the bottom line is what we're all here for. i'm very happy that this is being kicked offer. -- off. some of the importance of deal with graffiti, how to set up your own facebook account, using facebook to gather intel. facebook subpoenas, search warrant guidelines, and using grab at&t aloe tracker for investigations. then we're going to talk about if we have time, we'll talk about the successful investigations that we have done at the city of phoenix level. the importance of dealing with graffiti, graffiti gives your city a dirty appearance.

residents become afraid. businesses may not want to locate to your city. and less businesses mean less jobs. we know how that's affecting a lot of us. why do we want to use social media to investigate? why are you guys here? >> [inaudible]. >> it is, everybody talks on facebook, right? i learned this way back when i was doing s-r-o. it was myspace back then. myspace was huge, right? everybody got on myspace and everybody talked. well, i was at the school doing that job, i could always get intel on the kids finding out when the parties were going to be, who was in the fight, a lot of them used their phone to tape the fight and put it on myspace. now we have youtube and facebook. so, there's a wealth of information on there, a lot for us to use. this came from a facebook

spokesperson. we never turn over content records in response to u.s. legal process unless that process is a search warrant reviewed by a judge. we are required to regularly push back against over board requests. anybody ever sent in a subpoena to facebook yet? anybody ever ask facebook, hey, can we get the content of this? of this person's profile? if you ask right away, they're going to tell you, [speaker not understood]. so, you better bring it with a subpoena or a search warrant. it's better this way anyway because when you do get stuff on there, you know, it's better to present in court. how did you obtain it? i got on their facebook and i printed the screen. that's not going to work. it's better if you say, i subpoenaed or i sent a search warrant to facebook and this is what they provided me with. it's better in court when you get there.

if users are concerned about law enforcement somehow getting hold of their information on facebook, then they probably shouldn't put any information online to begin with. anybody in here have a facebook account? afraid to admit it? [laughter] my sister is on facebook and she posts everything. when the baby forwards, when the baby poops, when the baby eats, when the baby sleeps. it's cool. * farts guess who else uses facebook? all these vandals. i'm going to show you pictures and actual footage from the facebook to show you what they put on here. i'll go back to telling you guys how we got started. when i did get the graffiti, i told you, crap, this sucks. i have to do grace feet aloe, have to try to find